Facebook showed me an interesting video on the topic of genocide. A guy compared it to us dropping atomics in Japan. Nobody calls it genocide, we call it a tragedy. Because once Japan surrendered, we helped them rebuild, occupied their country, promised to protect them, then left as allies.

The same thing is happening here. If Hezbollah/Hamas surrendered, the IDF would stop. Remember, they tolerated decades of rocket attacks from Gaza, with minimal response. Saint level patience towards terrorist maniacs actually wanting to genocide Jews.

That's not to say all of the IDF is on the level, or everything they do is pure and good. But it is war, and only 1 side started and perpetuated the war.

No serious thinker calls it genocide.

BREAKING: President Trump responds to reports that Iran is preparing to impose tolls on vessels transiting the Strait of Hormuz in 60 days.

“There will be no tolls in the Hormuz Strait for 60 days during the cease fire period, and there will be no tolls after the 60 day period… pic.twitter.com/1AvkO4r09V

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) June 20, 2026

🚨Report: President Trump is meeting with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth and General Dan Caine today at Camp David pic.twitter.com/oFd9zg46cs

— The Calvin Coolidge Project (@TheCalvinCooli1) June 20, 2026

U.S. Becomes World’s Largest Oil Exporter, Surpassing Saudi Arabia and Russia pic.twitter.com/Q1nmFuWADx

— NewsWire (@NewsWire_US) June 20, 2026

FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Well, at least Iran Unconditionally Surrenderred.

Iran closes Strait of Hormuz as fighting flares again in Lebanon

---

Don't worry… We have all the cards

JD Vance: "My understanding talking to Steve and Jared this morning is that things are going well ... the United States has all the cards. The straits are now open." 🙃 pic.twitter.com/0EIfJE1FKm

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 20, 2026

---

Well, if JD, Steve and Jared are on top of this the Trump Empire will make money. As long as Donalds family comes out OK... It was all worth it.

---

Is this the great deal that TRUMP promised bereaved families in the early days of Operation Epic F***up?

D. C. Bear said:

---

The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7.

---

Except they are not. Urban warfare was Fallujah. This is Ghenghis Khan.

Realitybites said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7.

---

Except they are not. Urban warfare was Fallujah. This is Ghenghis Khan.

---

Gaza is urban.

Realitybites said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7.

---

Except they are not. Urban warfare was Fallujah. This is Ghenghis Khan.

---

If the IDF wanted to go Ghenghis Khan on Gaza, they would not do things like warn civilians in advance of attacks. The IDF sought to minimize civilian casualties, which is a difficult task in an environment such as Gaza. It was very much urban warfare in a very difficult environment. Again, if the IDF wanted to kill civilians, there would be orders of magnitude more dead civilians.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7.

---

Except they are not. Urban warfare was Fallujah. This is Ghenghis Khan.

---

If the IDF wanted to go Ghenghis Khan on Gaza, they would not do things like warn civilians in advance of attacks. The IDF sought to minimize civilian casualties, which is a difficult task in an environment such as Gaza. It was very much urban warfare in a very difficult environment. Again, if the IDF wanted to kill civilians, there would be orders of magnitude more dead civilians.

---

If the IDF killed everyone... and I mean everyone... every woman and child.... millions of them. Would they still have your unconditional support?

The_barBEARian said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7.

---

Except they are not. Urban warfare was Fallujah. This is Ghenghis Khan.

---

If the IDF wanted to go Ghenghis Khan on Gaza, they would not do things like warn civilians in advance of attacks. The IDF sought to minimize civilian casualties, which is a difficult task in an environment such as Gaza. It was very much urban warfare in a very difficult environment. Again, if the IDF wanted to kill civilians, there would be orders of magnitude more dead civilians.

---

If the IDF killed everyone... and I mean everyone... every woman and child.... millions of them. Would they still have your unconditional support?

---

You and TRUMP have at least one thing in common:

Neither of you understands what "unconditional" means.

Trump threatens to occupy Iran: "President Trump tells Fox News he spoke with Iranian officials overnight and said, 'You close the strait and you won't have a country.' He went on to tell these officials, 'You won't even make it back to your f**king country ... we'll take over… pic.twitter.com/H28P8AIpsG

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 21, 2026

Trump on Lebanon:

I am disappointed Israel cannot put Hezbollah away.

They can't do anything without knocking buildings down.

I am close to giving this to Syria because he would do a more precise job.

Source: Fox News pic.twitter.com/ZJ4oyVbIFB

— Clash Report (@clashreport) June 21, 2026

Are we about to see oil going up again?

BREAKING: The Iranian negotiating delegation has left the negotiation venue in Switzerland in "protest" over President Trump's threats, per Iranian state media.

Iran calls the threats a violation of the June 18th Memorandum of Understanding which bars the use of threat or force.

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) June 21, 2026

JUST IN: Iran’s president declares Iran will “not relinquish our right to enrich uranium”

— Polymarket (@Polymarket) June 21, 2026

Trump says US might "take over" Strait of Hormuz if Iran deal isn't reached and threatens Iranian negotiators now in talks with Vice President Vance. Follow live updates. https://t.co/RHB6hv2dF0 pic.twitter.com/9fmButIK1X

— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) June 21, 2026

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary on Fox News: Iran tried to smuggle IRGC members into the U.S. as part of their World Cup team.

— Open Source Intel (@Osint613) June 21, 2026

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

---

I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

---

Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

---

Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

---

Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

---

For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

---

Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

---

The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

---

I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

---

These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

---

No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7.

---

Except they are not. Urban warfare was Fallujah. This is Ghenghis Khan.

---

If the IDF wanted to go Ghenghis Khan on Gaza, they would not do things like warn civilians in advance of attacks. The IDF sought to minimize civilian casualties, which is a difficult task in an environment such as Gaza. It was very much urban warfare in a very difficult environment. Again, if the IDF wanted to kill civilians, there would be orders of magnitude more dead civilians.

---

When you tell civilians to flee, bomb them on their way to the refugee camps, and bomb them again when they get there, it's evident that you're not minimizing casualties. The goal was rather to get them out of northern Gaza and make way for the occupation.

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

---

I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

---

Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

---

Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

---

Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

---

For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

---

Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

---

The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

---

I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

---

These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

---

No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

---

So what would you have done in an urban area full of reinforced tunnels harboring the enemy and their weapons, General Lowry? And answering with, "Well I certainly would not…" is not an adequate response. How would you have actually handled rooting out Hamas that would not involve destroying most of the buildings in Gaza?

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

---

I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

---

Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

---

Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

---

Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

---

For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

---

Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

---

The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

---

I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

---

These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

---

No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

---

So what would you have done in an urban area full of reinforced tunnels harboring the enemy and their weapons, General Lowry? And answering with, "Well I certainly would not…" is not an adequate response. How would you have actually handled rooting out Hamas that would not involve destroying most of the buildings in Gaza?

---

The only way to do that is to actually go into the tunnels and fight, which the IDF is categorically unwilling to do.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Can we just quit giving Americans’ hard earned money to this blood thirsty war criminal? Peace in the Middle East would follow quickly. https://t.co/nAreZrYx8b

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) June 19, 2026

---

Or walk away and just let them do their thing and stay out of it. We could have left Iran decimated two+ months ago with no other action or negotiation required and let them sort it out. Crazy idea I know, but we're being extorted for a bad deal that has us no closer on anything we had prior to taking action, and now are indelibly intertwined with the Hezbollah/Israel situation.

---

If Trump said we are washing our hands of Israel and they are on their own, they'd be completely screwed...

The idea we are holding Israel back from single handedly crushing the entire middle east is laughably stupid.

---

While we get angry about the brutality of the idea of flattening Southern Lebanon, if missiles were coming out of Juarez or Tijuana and hitting El Paso or San Diego, what do you think we'd do to those populated areas?

---

It would largely depend on whether we were precisely targeting a terrorist threat or depopulating the areas in advance of long-term occupation.

Why do you ask?

---

Why does precisely matter? If you must hold ground against an enemy to stop their attacks, you have to occupy.

---

Assuming you must, you can take ground without flattening populated areas. Israel is barely even pretending to do so. They're openly comparing it to Gaza in the sense that no holds are barred (which is a cute admission about Gaza after the fact).

---

Not when the enemy uses homes, basements, farm storage units, buildings, and tunnel systems linking the aforementioned to hide and move combatants and munitions for their attacks. They also use it to exploit political and legal law fare because of the human cost created by their tactics. They are very effective at that as your continued "genocide" speak displays.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

---

I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

---

Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

---

Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

---

Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

---

For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

---

Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

---

The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

---

I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

---

These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

---

It's not only bogus, it undermines and is insulting to actual genocides.

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

---

I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

---

Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

---

Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

---

Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

---

For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

---

Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

---

The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

---

I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

---

These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

---

No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

---

So what would you have done in an urban area full of reinforced tunnels harboring the enemy and their weapons, General Lowry? And answering with, "Well I certainly would not…" is not an adequate response. How would you have actually handled rooting out Hamas that would not involve destroying most of the buildings in Gaza?

---

The only way to do that is to actually go into the tunnels and fight, which the IDF is categorically unwilling to do.

---

Another way is to destroy the tunnels and the structures concealing them. And that's secondary to them storing things like cruise missiles and mobile launchers in their homes and other facilities.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

---

I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

---

Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

---

Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

---

Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

---

For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

---

Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

---

The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

---

I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

---

These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

---

No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

---

So what would you have done in an urban area full of reinforced tunnels harboring the enemy and their weapons, General Lowry? And answering with, "Well I certainly would not…" is not an adequate response. How would you have actually handled rooting out Hamas that would not involve destroying most of the buildings in Gaza?

---

The only way to do that is to actually go into the tunnels and fight, which the IDF is categorically unwilling to do.

---

Another way is to destroy the tunnels and the structures concealing them. And that's secondary to them storing things like cruise missiles and mobile launchers in their homes and other facilities.

---

That hasn't worked, especially not in a way that kept most of the buildings from being destroyed.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Can we just quit giving Americans’ hard earned money to this blood thirsty war criminal? Peace in the Middle East would follow quickly. https://t.co/nAreZrYx8b

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) June 19, 2026

---

Or walk away and just let them do their thing and stay out of it. We could have left Iran decimated two+ months ago with no other action or negotiation required and let them sort it out. Crazy idea I know, but we're being extorted for a bad deal that has us no closer on anything we had prior to taking action, and now are indelibly intertwined with the Hezbollah/Israel situation.

---

If Trump said we are washing our hands of Israel and they are on their own, they'd be completely screwed...

The idea we are holding Israel back from single handedly crushing the entire middle east is laughably stupid.

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While we get angry about the brutality of the idea of flattening Southern Lebanon, if missiles were coming out of Juarez or Tijuana and hitting El Paso or San Diego, what do you think we'd do to those populated areas?

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It would largely depend on whether we were precisely targeting a terrorist threat or depopulating the areas in advance of long-term occupation.

Why do you ask?

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Why does precisely matter? If you must hold ground against an enemy to stop their attacks, you have to occupy.

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Assuming you must, you can take ground without flattening populated areas. Israel is barely even pretending to do so. They're openly comparing it to Gaza in the sense that no holds are barred (which is a cute admission about Gaza after the fact).

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Not when the enemy uses homes, basements, farm storage units, buildings, and tunnel systems linking the aforementioned to hide and move combatants and munitions for their attacks. They also use it to exploit political and legal law fare because of the human cost created by their tactics. They are very effective at that as your continued "genocide" speak displays.

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That's what DC referred to as "urban warfare." You'll notice there's not much of it going on. It's relatively rare to see the IDF shooting at anything that's shooting back. Painful to see them in action, too. No muzzle awareness, no assigned fields of view, just disorganized grab-assery. There's no telling what could be done with a professional army.

Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Realitybites said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Realitybites said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

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I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

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Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

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Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

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Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

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For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

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Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

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The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

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I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

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Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

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These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

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No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

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Why would you consider it an underestimate? It is more likely to be an overestimate given the source.

If the IDF "simply" leveled everything in their path, there would be many hundreds of thousands of dead. Gaza is very densely populated. There is no shortage of targets if your purpose is to kill civilians. The United States killed more in a single night in Tokyo than died in the Gaza war. The IDF did take actions designed to reduce civilian casualties. They are hard to avoid when your adversary is embedded in them and uses them as human shields. You can argue that they didn't do enough or maybe that they should just not have responded to the atrocities of Oct. 7, but it a factual review says your contention that the IDF simply leveled everything in their path is incorrect.

Hamas is an organization that is dedicated to the destruction of the nation of Israel. The only reason that Israel exists is today as a nation is that Hamas does not (yet) have the power to do to every Israeli what they did to the approximately 1,200 Israelis and others who were brutally massacred in the Oct. 7 attacks.

UPDATE: The Iranians remain in Switzerland, and talks continue at this hour, a U.S. diplomat told Fox News.

“Negotiations have been going in earnest all day,” the diplomat added. “Robust discussions on all elements of the nuclear deal are ongoing.”

Some of the discussions are…

— Trey Yingst (@TreyYingst) June 21, 2026

D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Realitybites said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Realitybites said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

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I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

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Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

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Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

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Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

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For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

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Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

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The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

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I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

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These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

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No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

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Why would you consider it an underestimate? It is more likely to be an overestimate given the source.

If the IDF "simply" leveled everything in their path, there would be many hundreds of thousands of dead. Gaza is very densely populated. There is no shortage of targets if your purpose is to kill civilians. The United States killed more in a single night in Tokyo than died in the Gaza war. The IDF did take actions designed to reduce civilian casualties. They are hard to avoid when your adversary is embedded in them and uses them as human shields. You can argue that they didn't do enough or maybe that they should just not have responded to the atrocities of Oct. 7, but it a factual review says your contention that the IDF simply leveled everything in their path is incorrect.

Hamas is an organization that is dedicated to the destruction of the nation of Israel. The only reason that Israel exists is today as a nation is that Hamas does not (yet) have the power to do to every Israeli what they did to the approximately 1,200 Israelis and others who were brutally massacred in the Oct. 7 attacks.

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I consider it an underestimate because the governing authorities in Gaza lost any ability to collect good data in early 2024 and most of the destruction has happened since then.

No one denies that more people may have been killed in shorter periods or in other places. The question isn't whether Gaza feels genocidy enough according to some relative or subjective standard. It's whether Israel's actions meet the elements of the crime. That's what's been asserted by both Israeli and international sources. Their evidence is there for anyone to read and rebut. "What about Tokyo" doesn't move the needle, unfortunately.

D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Realitybites said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Realitybites said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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I wonder if the MOU will be able to last more than a couple of weeks. I don't see how Iran will live up to it.

They will do something stupid aggressive in Lebanon or towards a neighbor. Something beyond being a toll troll under the Strait of Hormuz.

---

I'll take the under. It won't be. Cause of Iran. Israel has said they've not agreed to this. That makes the MOU DOA.

---

Do you think Israel should ignore any Hezbollah attacks? Has Hezbollah agreed to the MOU with Iran?

---

Israel can do whatever it wants to do, so long as it does it with no American foreign aid, no American military aid, no American intelligence, and no American military action.

It's a zero dollars, zero ammo, zero soldiers policy.

---

Why wouldn't we sell them weapons?

---

For the same reason we wouldn't sell ISIS weapons. As we're seeing in Gaza, there is very little difference in the practical aspect of Jewhad and Jihad.

---

Your level of knowledge and analysis is stunningly bad.

---

The only thing wrong with it is that we actually did supply weapons to ISIS. But it was a bad idea, so his point is still valid.

---

I hear a lot of chatter, mostly from my Marxist friends, about "genocide" in Gaza perpetrated by Israel. This is the same family of argument that you are supporting here. That is a stunningly bad reflection of basic awareness of history and current events.

---

Not sure why you'd focus on Marxist chatter when you could look at the thoroughly documented reports from Israeli human rights organizations and the UN, among others. I've yet to see any serious argument against their conclusions.

---

These are literal Marxist friends. This is why I mention them. War sucks and people die in them. One need not read a report to know this. In Rwanda thee were about 500,000 to 1,000,000 killed in about 100 days. In Gaza, about 75,000 have reportedly died in about 1,000 days. That's 10 times fewer killed over 10 times longer time period. The IDF was carrying out urban warfare in an attempt to root out those who carried out the attacks on October 7. I view that as a justifiable, though tragic, response to those attacks. We would probably have done much more. My Marxist friends view everything through the lens of oppressor/oppressed, and they have apparently decided that there is nothing Hamas can do to be handed responsibility for anything because Israel is seen as the colonizer/oppressor and Hamas is the oppressed. If the IDF wanted to kill as many civilians as possible, there would be a much higher number of dead. The talk of genocide is bogus.

---

No doubt 75K is an underestimate, but genocide isn't defined by comparison with Rwanda. Nor does oppression cease to be oppression because Marxists talk about it. Certainly nothing about the IDF's tactics was consistent with "rooting out" terrorists. They simply leveled everything in their path.

---

Why would you consider it an underestimate? It is more likely to be an overestimate given the source.

If the IDF "simply" leveled everything in their path, there would be many hundreds of thousands of dead. Gaza is very densely populated. There is no shortage of targets if your purpose is to kill civilians. The United States killed more in a single night in Tokyo than died in the Gaza war. The IDF did take actions designed to reduce civilian casualties. They are hard to avoid when your adversary is embedded in them and uses them as human shields. You can argue that they didn't do enough or maybe that they should just not have responded to the atrocities of Oct. 7, but it a factual review says your contention that the IDF simply leveled everything in their path is incorrect.

Hamas is an organization that is dedicated to the destruction of the nation of Israel. The only reason that Israel exists is today as a nation is that Hamas does not (yet) have the power to do to every Israeli what they did to the approximately 1,200 Israelis and others who were brutally massacred in the Oct. 7 attacks.

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I consider it an underestimate because the governing authorities in Gaza lost any ability to collect good data in early 2024 and most of the destruction has happened since then.

No one denies that more people may have been killed in shorter periods or in other places. The question isn't whether Gaza feels genocidy enough according to some relative or subjective standard. It's whether Israel's actions meet the elements of the crime. That's what's been asserted by both Israeli and international sources. Their evidence there for anyone to read and rebut. "What about Tokyo" doesn't move the needle, unfortunately.

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It does not change the fact that war sucks, but what the IDF has done does not meet the definition of genocide. Genocide requires the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. If there is any genocide case here, it belongs to Hamas, whose intent is clearly documented, admitted and attempted and whose success has only been limited by the fact that the IDF has been able to stop them.

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The ICC disagrees, although it did issue warrants for Hamas leaders for war crimes on October 7.

Jack Bauer said:

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boognish_bear said:

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UPDATE: The Iranians remain in Switzerland, and talks continue at this hour, a U.S. diplomat told Fox News.

“Negotiations have been going in earnest all day,” the diplomat added. “Robust discussions on all elements of the nuclear deal are ongoing.”

Some of the discussions are…

— Trey Yingst (@TreyYingst) June 21, 2026

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Why are we negotiating a war we have won 27 times?

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🇮🇱🇱🇧 Israeli Minister Ben-Gvir:

"Lebanon, all of Lebanon, should become our playground.

All of Lebanon should be our target.

And they tell me, "Wait a second, there is Lebanon and there is Hezbollah."

I do not accept this artificial approach."

This guy is a real psycho.… https://t.co/zVZ2eF3MPL

— Mario Nawfal (@MarioNawfal) June 21, 2026

Great, let’s end all foreign aid.

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) June 19, 2026